The Swarm

January 16, 2009

An Exclusive Interview with Indie 103.1's Music Director Mark Sovel...

Andy Gensler


Yesterday came the shocking news that Los Angeles’ beloved independent music station INDIE 103 was being yanked off the air by its corporate owner Entravision. For the last five years, the station has nurtured countless music careers and entertained legions with independent music and DJs like inimitable Steve Jones and Henry Rollins. The station’s loss leaves a huge void on SoCal radio dial and an even larger one in the Los Angeles music scene. The Daily Swarm caught up with the station’s Music Director Mark Sovell (a.k.a. Mr Shovel), to explain what happened.

The Daily Swarm: What a shock. What happened?
Mark Sovel: Pretty crazy days. It wasn’t out of the blue. I knew it was going to happen. There had been a back and forth struggle to keep the station going. But to our employers’ credit, they allowed us to go on air and say goodbye to everyone.

So now the station will be web-based only?
None of the primary DJs or music programmers at the station are involved in the website – There is one person from the station running the web-stream. I don’t know what their plans are but I’m sure he will do the best he can given the situation. My concern is that people are confused. They are running an ad on the air saying we couldn’t play the corporate radio game anymore and that we didn’t want to change our format to be more mainstream and that we decided to play music on the web, but the staff of Indie had no control in the decision to shut down the station. I guess they had some success with the web and want to keep it going. But I don’t want the listeners to be confused.

I played the stream and there was no DJ, just kind of down the middle Sex Pistols, Clash, Dead Boys but without a DJ.
That’s pretty much what it’s going on now; it’s like playing an iPod of the music we left on their computers. It’s just ironic they have a loop running on the radio station talking about how we don’t want to play the corporate radio game and they play the Sex Pistols and Black Flag… and the funny thing is they just kicked Steve Jones and Henry Rollins off the air.

How did Steve Jones take it?
He was disappointed, but I don’t want to speak for him. I helped him clean out his desk. He said, “It’s weird, I’ve never done anything for five years.” His wit is unique. I’m really gonna miss Jonesy. KROQ had tried to hire him away in the past, but they would never let him on the air and do what he did at Indie.

How do you think It’s going to impact the music scene in Los Angeles?
It’s become part of the culture for a lot of people. There was the Coachella crowd, professionals, creative types, all sorts of people. I’ve heard from a lot of bands who we had helped in the past, band like She Wants Revenge, Submarines, Giant Drag, Great Northern. People are bummed.

What about the ratings and the controversial Portable People Meter (PPM)?
I’ve seen the ratings and I know we didn’t do very well on PPM, but the kind of people who listen to our station are not the kind of people who want to carry around a device to measure what they’re doing. But they are the kind of people who show up to our events in droves. Our signal didn’t cover the entire city. We have transmitters in two places – Santa Monica and Newport – and our signal didn’t reach the Valley where the proportion of PPM is very high. Take for instance the entire area from Echo Echo Park to Beverly Hills to Wilshire, yet they said we had no listeners there. We know we have core listeners in Los Feliz and Silver Lake, but we supposedly had zero listeners there – it is just ridiculous. All stations with eclectic programming don’t register well with PPM. PPM is not even certified in Los Angeles but Arbitron pushed it through early because they make more money from it.

How were the finances in general?
Advertising in the market as whole is down—just like the overall economy. We were straddling the line of profitability and in the last few months we dipped below where we weren’t making a profit. We suffered from the bad economy.

Since [Indie 103’s owner] Entravision owns a bunch of Latino radio stations, will they turn Indie 103 into a Spanish channel filled with syndicated programming from their other stations?
They’ll put up something that requires little or no overhead and they won’t have to hire. They can just use a format that is all ready running in other cities.

What do you say to people who claim the station had started becoming increasingly more mainstream and major-label oriented in recent years?
A lot of that is a direct result of the PPM ratings, which definitely had an effect on the station. But I didn’t operate that way. I put the Amazing Baby record in heavy rotation – which was the highest requested record when the station went off the air – and they don’t have a label. Indie 103 has a strong history of playing unsigned bands.

Talk about your show.
It was called Check One Two, it was a local L.A. music show two hours a week that nurtured local L.A. bands. We also do a live weekly showcase that started out at the Viper Room but recently relocated to the Echoplex. It’s every Tuesday and called Check One, Twosday. This Tuesday, January 20 we have Earl Greyhound and the Castledoor; then the week after we have IO Echo and ZaZa; and the Bronx in February.

You know Prince brought us up to his house because he’s releasing his record without a label. It was just him in a huge house talking to us for like three hours before he let us hear the new album. It’s a great record. And he’s another unsigned artist we support.

What did he say?
All sort of things. He said we “need to change music’s gate-keepers” and then let us have some of his music to play on the air. We premiered it on Jonsey’s Jukebox. He had met with KROQ but didn’t even let them hear the music. He gave it to us instead.

Any plans for a future Indie 103?
There are people who are making an effort to bring the station back on the air with the same people, but I can’t say specifically.

What can people do who really want to see the station back on the air?/
They can start by emailing the people at Entravision who were involved with the decision. Walter Ulloa (wulloa@entravision.com), the CEO, and Jeffrey Liberman (jliberman@entravision.com), president of the radio division—who was actually a great guy in a tough situation.







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Previous comments include

#1 You Know You're Right says:

I listened to Indie 103 from the first day it was on the air. I have to say, the biggest problem with the station WAS the programming.

It started pretty solid, doing classic alternative and punk, and focused on breaking real national indie bands.

They were the first to play The Killers, first to play Bloc Party. Plus, add X, Joy Division, Buzzcocks, and the occasional 90's classic, and you've got a great station.

Then they got away from that formula, and were trying too hard to be a local station. Yes, this is LA, and there are a lot of good bands, but good shouldn't be on the radio, only GREAT should be on the radio. I mean Sea Wolf? Low vs. Diamond? Those are NOT commercial radio worthy bands. They should have gone heavier on bands breaking on a world wide basis. Justice, Hot Chip, MMJ, more Beck.

The last few weeks, I'd listen and say "oh they're playing the Pixies, and Pumpkins now, c'mon, how lazy". And on top of that, the only new bands they were playing were major label things like The Knux.

Sad to see the station go. It had more a more positive impact than negative. I loved Jonesy for sure.

I'll take my KCRW.

#2 bump says:

camp freddy lame's killed Indi103. Those pompous hasbeens and the ever ego ridden Danny and Brent Bolthouse were a joke. Pandora and ipods in cars killed em again. and will end most radio stations that are'nt main mainstream. loved jonesy and loved hearing the Weirdos, Buzzcocks, and other rarities you never heard on the radio. the joe show was cool when I heard it. the difference now is we have 20,000 songs on our ipods and computers and can narrate our own life. Let us know where Jonesy and Joe ends up though. they ruled.

#3 Jordan Catalano says:

@ You Know You're Right: Oh, come on. Taking them to task for supporting emerging artists like Sea Wolf and Low Vs Diamond is pretty lame. And your claim that Indie didn't play enough Beck is erroneous (they supported "Modern Guilt" more than most)--same goes for Justice (didn't you ever hear Paul V's awesome "Neon Noise" show?).

Indie, like a lot of independent minded outlets right now, got screwed by The Man. They weren't being "lazy", they were trying to save their station.

Thanks for the caveat at the end of your message, but dude, you can HAVE KCRW. Seriously. Just take it.

#4 Ocean says:

I was pretty bummed when they changed the morning show a few months ago - I listened to Joe Escalante every morning here in NYC via the web - but I was still a loyal listener whenever I was in LA. I can't imagine that Jones won't find another gig - the guy is a natural.

#5 thelink says:

and nic harcourt spun a ton of sea wolf.

mark sent out a nice plug for this article on little radio's buzz band with kevin bronson this morning. very nice.

#6 You Know You're Right says:

C'Mon, Sea Wolf and LvD are mediocre bands. They never "emerged". They probably got drunk with the PD, and he arbitrarily chose to pump them up. If they were so worthy, why can't they even sell out The Troubadour, even after all the airplay.

There were dozens of other bands that were more worthy of the airtime. As LA bands go, I would have rather heard No Age, Moving Units, or something.

They never played LCD Soundsystem, barely played anything from Neon Bible, nor any Wolf Parade, Yeasayer, or countless other indie bands that were starting to happen on a national level. Jeez, when they played CSS, they played the song from the Ipod Touch commercial, and didn't follow it up with any of the better songs off the album. How lazy is that.

As for Nic, I didn't love everything he played, but he was way more cutting edge in his choices. He's not even on the air there any more anyway.

Yes, they did support Beck a lot. You're right about that.

#7 You Know You're Right says:

All that being said, LA radio and the music scene here is not better w/o Indie, it is definitely worse.

#8 bob says:

I live in the valley and work in Hollywood. I would listen to indie on my way to work and way home daily... mixed in with listening to cd's. Sadly though I don't have a portable people meter.

#9 Sonic Nurse says:

Indie did play all of those bands mentioned... Justice, Hot Chip, My Morning Jacket and Beck in heavy rotation at various times right when the records were coming out and I actually heard Beck in the last 2 hours of the show yesterday Morning. Also, Indie presented and promoted shows that each of the aformentioned bands played so I don't really understand the comment from "You Know You're Right".

#10 RR says:

Actually, Nic is still on at KCRW -- Sunday nights from 6-9pm.

#11 David says:

I just sent an email to Jeff Lieberman but the firewall kicked it back

#12 andy khouri says:

I tend to agree that the station became far too insular in its latter half of existence. It's great to celebrate the culture of Los Angeles and local music, but as someone's already said, local doesn't necessarily mean great. Where Indie 103.1 had once caused me to phase down my iPod listening, it finally forced me to put the proverbial ear buds back on (sometimes only to dodge the increasingly pervasive soughs of TK and Dave Navarro) because as time went on there was just no way to stay connected to the newest, coolest music by simply listening to Indie -- especially dance music. Paul V is great but his show is on when everybody's OUT dancing, after all.

The internet once again emerged as a superior source for non-Giant Drag-related songs, which is a shame because finding music online is still a lot more work than simply tuning in to a kick-ass radio station whenever you get in the car.

That said, failing for being too committed to your passion is as good a way to die as any. And on its worst day, Indie was still light-years better than the odious KROQ, who still make it a point to play the Chili Peppers' "Under The Bridge" on a thrice-hourly basis -- local programming in the extreme, you could say -- as well as other similarly mummified '90s alt rock and nu metal. KROQ is a ghastly enterprise and I hope their headquarters falls into a fiery earthquake chasm.

R.I.P. Indie 103.1

#13 Emma says:

I am really upset, it was a great station and to respond to You know You're right, they did play LCD soundsystem, that's how I discovered them. I hope they'll find a way to bring the station back:(

#14 FUCKROQ2 says:

I listened to Indie since it's infantile days. Yes, I did notice it was heading towards a more "Kroq" sound. I loved the early format of NO DJs!!!(Other than Jonesy). Some of their DJs were just noise makers and has-beens. It didn't need them. I'm sure I'll become a big fan of their internet station which will now have to compete with WOXY Vintage-which is similar to Indie's old format. I'm just pissed that LA/OC radio is gonna suck again.

#15 Dave says:

I live in my arse and I used to listen to the radio station everyday.
but there are still many good radio stations available on the internets

#16 Trace says:

Now I am confused.

If the web indy1031 is a joke, Why was Joe Escalante on the internet yesterday morning.

Have to say turning on the 103.1fm this morning to be assaulted by a Latino station, I was even more at a loss than the day before. Welcome to the 103.1 replacement. There I was flipping and scanning to hopefully find something to listen to. Ended up 89.9 KCRW was playing some kind of jazz covers of The Cure. It had to do.

103.1 helped fill in the gap that 88.9 Loyola fell through on the weekends. They for me worked in tandem and kept me happy. Now I will have to modify my Jeep with an Ipod because I really can't take the overhyped bs filler radio stations.

#17 Wendy O says:

Yea, I usually listen to my iPod, but the way I learned about new music to download to my iPod was from Indie. Nowhere to turn to find that now.

#18 Michael Moran says:

John Prine said it best:
"The radio has learned all of my favorite tunes"

Twas ever thus: all good things come to an end... most people want the same fifty songs over and over.( I can speak in aphorisms and cliches for a week straight, do not get me started!)

Good bye Mr. Shovel , see ya Jonsey- I hope to find both of you on the other side of this mess(along with that guy who did the cowboy show on saturday mornings).

#19 x says:

Could not have said it better myself. Thanks Shovel for bringing honesty to the public.

#20 Sean says:

Indie was one of the things I would quote as an example of why LA ruled. Where else would you get such a great mix of artists? Yes, they went KROQ for the last couple of months of existence, but that was a desperate attempt at survival. I thought Big Sonic Heaven was easily the best show on radio, not just terrestrial radio or just in LA. The only other thing I listen to is NPR.

I was an Arbitron shareholder for years and know about the PPM, and frankly I think they're on crack if they think anyone other than the very poor are going to hook something into their phone lines, walk around with a beeper on their belts all day long, then plug it in every night for data uploading...just for a couple of bucks. No one with any dignity will do it. The fashion-conscious hipsters that make up much of the Indie audience sure as hell wouldn't be seen with that thing strapped to their side all day long for two weeks.

I am so sad to see them go.

#21 chuck d says:

the best station ever!!!!! im 30 and grew up on l.a. radio and never heard of the buzzcocks, fugazi and new bands like chromeo and amazing baby. thanks indie for opening my mind.. sucks your gone.

#22 Christina says:

So disappointed to see INDIE go! I loved this station because it played original stuff and introduced me to new bands! This station was where I could actually hear real music. There are more people who would listen to your station but if there was better signal reception. Hope to see INDIE come back soon!!

#23 S. A. says:

Horrible news. This is a really sad time for independent music and entertainment on the public radio. Indie exposed me to so much new music. Sure, some of it was mainstream. However, it was overall so refreshing in comparison to other stations that sucked up to listeners.
I was shocked to hear that KROQ played MGMT and Sea Wolf, amongst others. Maybe I'm wrong, but it shows how much influence Indie had.

#24 Myles Matisse says:

Entra​visio​n (a Hispa​nic focus​ed compa​ny)​​ had NO busin​ess ever start​ing up a stati​on like Indie​ 103.​​1 They didn'​​t work hard enoug​h and lacke​d the true INTEG​RITY and PASSI​ON for Indie​ music​,​​ Indie​ 103.​​1 and all the immen​se talen​t that worke​d there​.

If Entra​visio​n had reall​y cared​ and had Indie​'​​s back,​​ this day would​ never​ have come.​​ With the right​ ethic​s in place​,​​ Entra​visio​n could​ have found​ the ad reven​ue to make Indie​ 103.​​1 even stron​ger.​​ By touti​ng the inter​natio​nal talent that came on the chann​el and by promo​ting the fact that Rolli​ng Stone​ Magaz​ine claim​ed Indie​ to be the best stati​on in the count​ry,​​ the sales​ department​ at Entra​visio​n could​ have used those​ attri​butes​ to help grab top notch​ advertiser​s.

The indus​try'​​s metho​ds of measu​ring liste​ning audie​nces like ARBIT​RON and PPM are fault​y becau​se they don'​​t monit​or each and every​ radio​ in the listening audie​nce and shoul​d NOT be relie​d upon as a TRUE and COMPL​ETE ratings of listenersh​ip.​​ I think​ it's a lame way for total​s of liste​ners to be tallied to convince the suits​ and adver​tiser​s for their​ $$ and suppo​rt.​​ It's obvio​us that Indie​ 103.1 had the audie​nce,​​ ratin​gs be DAMNE​D!

Someo​ne with the $$ like PRINC​E or a group​ of inter​natio​nally​ known​ and rich music​ians/​​artis​ts should pool their​ energ​y,​​ talen​t,​​ passi​on and money​ together and start​ their​ own coope​ratio​n that is based​ aroun​d the right​ love and inten​t and have that coope​ratio​n BUY the 103.​​1 frequ​ency and Indie from Entra​visio​n and put it back on the air.

We have enoug​h Latin​ based​ radio​ stati​ons in the Los Angel​es area that play the same drive​l that the new El Gato 103.​​1 is playi​ng.​​ By shutt​ing down Indie​ 103.​​1 and chang​ing the forma​t,​​ Entravision have​ kille​d off some of the precious origi​nalit​y and music​al cultu​re that Indie​ 103.​​1 broug​ht not only to LA radio​ but, the entir​e city and inter​natio​nal commu​nity as well.​​ Indie​ 103.​​1 garne​red way more world​ accla​im,​​ criti​cal prais​e and speci​al guest​s and respe​ct than El Gato and Entra​visio​n will be able to.

The destr​uctio​n of Indie​ 103.​1 and the begin​ning of yet anoth​er Mexic​an station demon​strat​es a dange​rous sign and that is the influ​x of hispa​nics into the South​ern Calif​ornia​ area from Mexic​o (and other​ Latin​ Ameri​can countries)​​ is helpi​ng to dumb down the airwa​ves and turn it slowl​y away from English and the beaut​y of Ameri​ca and repla​ce it with Spani​sh to cater​ to and enabl​e the unedu​cated​ and peopl​e that come into this count​ry unwil​ling and unabl​e (due to lazin​ess,​​ lack of ambit​ion and a chip on their​ shoul​der mentality)​​ to assim​ilate​ into the Unite​d State​s of Ameri​ca'​​s way of life and cultu​re.

#25 Tyler says:

comment number 1? get your head out of your ass, your saying that a station branded as "independent" should have played more corporate commercially successful music, then later in the comment you complain that they were playing to many majors. their programing was obviously influenced by entravision in a big way. thats why there is no such thing as "Indie" radio. The only place indie radio can exist unfortunately is on the internet. but we do need something better than classic rock and jack fm. c'mon this is L.A. fucking boring

#26 michele says:

thanx for the post.... i was SHOCKED when i couldn't get "my indie 103.1 on the air....& shocked & disappointed no Jonsey!!!

i loved the off beat candor, the stories, the reminiscing, great music + obscure music scene....

#27 MissinSteve says:

Indie changed as soon as Dicky Barrett was gone, love him or hate him, he had a wonderfully fresh morning show and not the same ole same ole we had to hear on every other station, including Indie once he was gone. Indie basically slit their wrists because no one was listening until 12 bells after Dicky left (well at least not until Shovel came on obviously trying to save the sinking ship). Then at 12 bells the magic would happen and all of us who has the privilege to go on a wild ride everyday with Steve Jones driving were in awe and totally blessed!! Jonesy Jukebox will be mourned until further notice. For all of you people who bash Steve genius…that’s what it was pure genius and your simple minds just didn’t get it. I feel sorry for us all because something special was lost.

#28 Medra says:

Recently I have relocated to a town outside of LA. I heard through a friend that Indie 103.1 shut down. I just wanted to say that Indie played my band on "Check One, Two"...it is a great memory hearing your band on the radio, now it is more of a memory with which I know it may not be directly repeated. I really appreciated Indie for promoting local bands and bands from LA past/present. As well as having a cool reggae show and "Complete Control" and the "Watusi Rodeo" show. Really awesome stuff for not being exclusive to the internet or satelite radio. I always appreciated that they are the one and only "mainstream" radio station that I have heard Op. Ivy on. I'm sad to hear they are gone for sure. Thanks to everyone at Indie for an attempt to bring music back to the people, for the people. See ya'll in the internet radio revolution!

#29 come back indy!! says:

how am i supposed to know what songs to download onto my IPOD now??? Pandora is just not cutting it, and KROQ plays like one new song a month, at most...come back indy!!

#30 Troy says:

Wow... if an indie station can't make it in L.A., think about what's happening in the rest of the country. I was happy to find Indie 103 on the internet two years ago; as you can't find an "alternative" station the likes of KROQ here in D.C. since Entravision converted our WHFS to Spanish format 5 years ago.

Growing up in L.A., I've always looked back there for music. Not sure where I'll find good music now. Any hints..?

#31 Omar Kateb says:

Indie brought some soul back to L.A. and since it's been gone L.A.'s just Orange County again....just mannequins and paper mashy.


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