The Swarm
Kill Rock Stars: Camel targets indie rock
TDS Editors

UPDATE: Indie labels demand apology in open letter to Rolling Stone
UPDATE: Will the bands sue Camel and Rolling Stone too?
UPDATE: Winston-Salem Journal: Reynolds halts controversial ad campaign:
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co. said today that it has voluntarily halted promotions for a Camel marketing campaign aimed at adult listeners of independent rock music.
The decision comes a day after Reynolds was sued by nine state attorneys general over ads for Camel cigarettes that recently ran in Rolling Stone magazine.
The attorneys general of California, Connecticut, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Washington accused Reynolds of violating the 1998 Master Settlement Agreement between 46 states and tobacco manufacturers because a nine-page pullout in the Nov. 15 issue sponsored by Reynolds contained cartoon images.
Other states are expected to file separate lawsuits. The company could face a fine exceeding $100 million for violating the cartoon ban, according to Tom Corbett, the attorney general for Pennsylvania.
[...]
Howard said that Reynolds sent a letter Tuesday to the tobacco-enforcement committee of the National Association of Attorneys General. The letter said that Reynolds would be willing to halt the Camel “The Farm” marketing.
“We are voluntarily taking these steps as an interim accommodation until this matter is resolved,” Howard said. That includes suspending distribution of music CDs with The Farm promotion, no longer using The Farm imagery at music events and suspending operation of the indie Web site.
“Scheduled age-restricted events in adult-only venues will still be held,” Howard said. “There will be live music at the events performed by indie rock bands.”
UPDATE: US States sue RJ Reynolds for Rolling Stone ad:
An illustrated advertising section in Rolling Stone magazine violates the tobacco industry’s nine-year-old promise not to use cartoons to sell cigarettes, state officials charged Tuesday.
Attorney general’s offices in at least eight states planned to file lawsuits starting Tuesday about the advertising for Camel cigarettes in the November edition of Rolling Stone, officials said.
The section combines pages of Camel cigarette ads with pages of magazine-produced illustrations on the theme of independent rock music.
“Their latest nine-page advertising spread in Rolling Stone, filled with cartoons, flies in the face of their pledge to halt all tobacco marketing to children,” Pennsylvania’s Attorney General Tom Corbett said in a statement released Tuesday.
Pennsylvania, California, Illinois, New York, Ohio and Washington state are filing lawsuits Tuesday, Corbett’s office said. Attorneys general offices in two other states, Maryland and Connecticut, also said they were taking part.
UPDATE: California sues R.J. Reynolds over Rolling Stone feature:
California Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown today sued cigarette maker R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co., accusing it of violating a 1998 legal settlement that banned the use of the iconic Joe Camel character and other cartoons in tobacco advertisements.
California is one of eight states, including New York, Ohio and Pennsylvania, filing complaints in local courts. The suits are aimed at an editorial feature with accompanying advertising touting the “Farm Rocks” independent music campaign. The feature appeared in a 40th anniversary edition of Rolling Stone magazine published Nov. 15.
“It looks like a cartoon and has little machines in the air and caricatures,” Brown said in an interview. “This violates the rules as written.”
The lawsuit filed in San Diego County Superior Court says that “given the aggressive and blatant nature of the Farm Rocks campaign, and its integral use of cartoons in cigarette advertising, we believe Reynolds has committed a clear-cut violation.” The complaint asks that “significant sanction should be assessed.”
R.J. Reynolds counters that it didn’t violate the 1998 multistate agreement. The cartoons printed in the nine-page spread, said R.J. Reynolds spokesman David Howard, were created by Rolling Stone artists and designers, working completely independent of Reynolds’ advertising executives.
“In our opinion, what’s at issue is the editorial content, and Rolling Stone in a letter said we had no control over it,” Howard said. What’s more, he added, the lawsuits appear to violate settlement requirements that the company be given at least a 30-day notice before legal action is taken.
UPDATE: RJ Reynolds to stop cigarette print ads in 2008:
The company had been criticized for both its colorful and feminine Camel No. 9 ads, which appeared in fashion magazines and were seen as being aimed at young women, and also for a recent ad in Rolling Stone.
In that ad, four pages of Camel cigarette ads bookended Rolling Stone’s own material on independent rock music, which was presented in a cartoon-like format. That angered anti-smoking advocates, who said it appeared the whole thing was a Camel ad — and that it recalled the old “Joe Camel” cartoons that were banned because they appeared aimed at children.
R.J. Reynolds spokeswoman Jan Smith said the decision, first reported Tuesday in the Winston-Salem Journal, had been made sometime before October and was unrelated to the Rolling Stone controversy.
Earlier this year, The Daily Swarm twice reported on a disturbing trend: Camel Cigarettes has turned its aggressive marketing efforts and unlimited cash resources towards recruiting its next generation of customers from the ranks of indie rock fans. We pointed to two specific Camel tour sponsorships of much beloved “elder statesmen” of the indie rock scene – the Flaming Lips and Dinosaur Jr – sparking some pointed debate among our readers and the bands’ fans about the artists’ (and their own) responsibility in responding to this corporate intrusion. Now, it appears that this discussion may jump into the national consciousness, as a Camel advertorial section in a recent issue of Rolling Stone might once again put the Big Tobacco company in serious legal jeopardy.
If you bothered to pick up an actual print copy of last month’s 40th Anniversary issue of Rolling Stone (instead of just perusing the ass-backwards ‘digital edition’ that Wenner Media tried to make such a big deal about), you probably flipped right to a 4-page pull-out section near the front of the book entitled the “Indie Rock Universe.” The fold-out poster – a bizarre illustration that lists dozens of Pitchfork-centric bands grouped around representations of various planets and animals – is nestled in between five pages of advertisements for “The Farm,” Camel Cigarettes’ indie band and label-focused promotion. If you are like most indie music fans who paid any attention to those pages, you likely assumed that the “Indie Rock Universe” poster was part and parcel of the Camel advertising campaign; if not, the message was clear…Camel’s got indie rock’s back.

In today’s New York Times, Stuart Elliot reports that Camel’s parent company R.J. Reynolds Tobacco is now under fire for this poorly disguised advertorial section:
“This is one great big cigarette ad,” said Matthew L. Myers, president of the organization, Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, in Washington.
“The fact that Rolling Stone produced the content, but displayed it in such a manner that it is indistinguishable from the Camel ad, only makes them an accomplice,” he added.
The insert may also violate the 1998 settlement between tobacco companies and state attorneys general, Mr. Myers said, because the illustrations look like cartoons, which can no longer be used in cigarette ads.
The insert is particularly egregious, he added, because Camel “is most notorious for using cartoon characters to market cigarettes to children with the now-banned Joe Camel.”
David Howard, a spokesman for R. J. Reynolds Tobacco in Winston-Salem, N.C., the unit of Reynolds American that sells Camels, disputed the complaint. There was a clear delineation, he said, between “our ads on the outside pages” of the insert and “the inside foldout, which is all editorial content from Rolling Stone.”
At Rolling Stone, a unit of Wenner Media in New York, the publisher, Ray Chelstowski, said Reynolds “had no idea it would take a cartoon format” because “the advertisers don’t know” in advance about articles. just as “the editors don’t see the advertising.”
While both R.J. Reynolds and Rolling Stone spokesmen deny any collusion between the advertising and the “editorial,” its hard to take their statements seriously. The theme of the ads and the “editorial content” are one and the same. The color scheme of the ads and the drawing, while not identical, is complimentary. And while the legal ramifications could be quite serious for Camel if the anti-smoking people make a real case that this is a violation of the 1998 tobacco settlement with the states’ attorneys general, Rolling Stone has something to lose too: unmarked advertorial is a violation of the American Society of Magazine Editors’ editorial guidelines, and should Jann Wenner submit this issue for National Magazine Awards consideration, it will probably be disqualified.
Rolling Stone isn’t really the issue: the magazine is not a real supporter of indie rock, and the “Indie Rock Universe” graphic was at best an opportunity to name check a few dozen hipster bands that would rarely, if ever, get coverage in its pages and collect a huge check from Big Tobacco for their editors’ time and efforts. But for R.J. Reynolds Tobacco, the Rolling Stone ad is just a small but visible part of its shift in marketing efforts to aggressively target what it clearly views as a growing and desirable demographic: indie rock musicians and their fans.
For more than a year, the cigarette company has been sponsoring the “Camel Signature Event” concert series, paying top dollar to artists like the Flaming Lips, Phoenix, G. Love and Special Sauce, The Black Keys, Dinosaur Jr, Dr. Dog, and Band of Horses to play club concerts while distributing free tickets on a Camel website and in person at bars and clubs via marketing reps in each of the cities where the concerts occur.

As The Daily Swarm reported on the Camel-sponsored Dinosaur Jr tour earlier this year:
According to several eyewitness tipsters, the Camel branding at the shows was, as one Seattle fan wrote, “really next level – unsettling to say the least.” Yeah, they had Camel girls handing out free smokes; giant light boxes with the Camel logo and the band’s faces; Camel reps offering lighters, stickers, drink tickets, and posters to people willing to take a survey; and 30 minutes of non-stop Camel ads on the video screen before the band went on. But the kicker was this: the tour touched down at mostly non-smoking venues, so Camel parked several tour buses out front – to use as deluxe smoker’s lounges.
Or, as an Austinist editor wrote after attending one of the Camel-sponsored Flaming Lips shows:
Scanning the venue, I attempted to make mental notes of Camel’s full-court press on my Gen Y sensibilities: internally lit logo boxes dangling from the ceiling above the audience, free smokes flowing like black manna, a smoking lounge with comfortable couches and littered with Camel falderal beckoning to young bottoms, adjectives such as “smooth”, “flavorful”, and “Turkish” were projected to us randomly, and attractive blondes operating activity kiosks for us to while away our time at such as the Camel Sand-Art booth (I briefly pondered what birdbrained marketing associate proposed Sand-Art as an effective way to reach culturally aware 18–35 year olds.)
(While Camel insists that the concerts sponsorships are solely to reward existing Camel smokers, many reports from the cities where the shows have taken place claim that tickets were widely available to any fans of the band who were interested in attending, and that a handful for each show were available for purchase through normal ticketing channels.)
As for Camel’s “The Farm” promotion, its mission statement is:
The world of independent music is constantly changing. New styles and sounds emerge daily. That’s why we’re bringing you THE FARM. A collaboration between Camel and independent artists and record labels. It’s our way of supporting these innovators as they rise up to bring their sounds to the surface. We give them more opportunities to be heard through online music and countless events across the nation.
The “collaboration” between Camel and independent artists and record labels appears to be pretty limited. According to several managers and labels contacted by The Daily Swarm, Camel’s support consists primarily of $1500 licensing fees for tracks included on a promotional CD (supposedly 1 million copies of The Farm CD will be handed out at shows this year). The Farm also sponsors small club shows, underwriting band fees and promotional flyers for clubs in return for the opportunity to set up The Farm “merch booths” in the venues’ lobbies. The Farm website has links to participating labels and bands’ websites, mixed in with upcoming show information and “D.I.Y. how-to” articles (like how to make a duct tape wallet). All in all, pretty useless.
It all sounds like a lame attempt by corporate behemoths to crash the Pitchfork party, and assign aging and increasingly uncool brands some credibility with “the kids” by naming-checking a bunch of new bands and waving the “indie” slogan around in an embarrassing attempt to be a part of the next generation. With the “Indie Rock Universe”, Camel and Rolling Stone aren’t just co-conspirators, they’re after the same thing.
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45 Comments
I was randomly handed a wad of tickets--as many as I wanted (bring all your friends!)--to a Dinosaur Jr./Band of Horses Camel show. The tickets were given to me by a pretty Latina standing on a street corner in hipster central Silverlake in Los Angeles recently. In fact, the exact spot was just outside the parking lot of Rockaway Records, on Glendale just south of Silverlake Boulevard... I was not asked if I was a Camel smoker in any way. Or if I was of legal age. (which, okay, I probably am...)
i'll take those tickets if you're not going to use them
Here's a really interesting thought: It's one thing for the Lips and Dino Jr. to knowingly take Camel's money; it's another for a band that would never do such a thing to find itself "name-checked" (to use a word in the story) in this advertorial section. Does that imply that the group endorses the product? The argument could be made, if we buy that the section was all one big ad. I'd say that if a band was litigious, it could get some nice coin -- and media attention underscoring Camel's insidiousness -- by threatening to sue.
my understanding is that camel pays a LOT of money to the bands on these one-off shows... like, for a struggling indie band, it would be hard to turn down for sure.
Can you blame the artists for taking any penny they can find when the industry that is supposed to support them can not even agree on a business model for MP3 and the Internet?
Why are the DS editors letting Wenner Media and Rolling Stone off the hook? Unlike indie bands, Wenner and RS are not hurting for cash! They'll publish obits for rock stars like George Harrison and Warren Zevon who were killed by lung cancer and then a few pages later run a tobacco ad! How is THAT OK??! "Yes, it killed some of our community's finest...and now we're going to push what killed them on you...heck, this lets us pay for a glossier cover and one of our great stories on the Disney Channel's latest contributions to the music scene."
Get a life. People smoke because they want to. Live music goes perfect with beer and cigarettes. Camel is just utilizing a territory that already embraces their products. Bars know it, bands know it and so do the fans. Smoke em if you got em!
I would like to say that I worked at rolling stone, and the editors do indeed seee the advertisments before they hit production. The Bulliten bord thats has the layout design of the next issue even has the advetisments already on the layout.
The below #7 is correct. Hits the nail right on the head.
If "people smoke because they want to" as #9 and #7 claim, then you wouldn't see so many products on the market for quitting smoking...and you wouldn't see people with their voice boxes removed still smoking. They may make the stupid decision at age 21 and under to start smoking...and smoke because they want to for a brief period...but it doesn't take long for nicotine addiction to rewire the brain. This is why tobacco companies fight so hard to reach young people...young music fans are an easy target b/c they all gather in 1 place and still think it looks cool because other people in their scene are doing it. You can believe your gut on this (works wonders for Bush) or learn the science behind nicotine addiction and study the facts. #7 and #9 are dead wrong.
I wouldn't be surprised if #7 and #9 were cigarette industry marketers. The new direction in corporate advertising is the quest for authenticity. In fact a recent book called Authenticity: What Consumers Really Want attempts to break down exactly what old-guard corporations have to gain credibility with savy and (rightfully) skeptical young people. Planting marketers in web forums and other anonymous word-of-mouth venues is a major new advertising push. They know we're not as gullible as our parents and they are scared. Be on guard, folks.
#11. Did you write that book? Do you work for that publishing house? Nobody can be trusted.
Even cursory analysis of sentence structure will reveal that #12 and #7 are obviously the same person. Perhaps it is you who should do the life-getting "jeff"/"free thinker." Tell your corporate taskmasters that we aren't buying it, hardgear.
I'm not Jeff. Usually I wouldn't repost but your lame detective skills had to be revealed. But you get a gold star for trying to solve a big mystery!
"What Consumers Really Want" from above.....
A shameless plug.....oh wait, Camel just did that too! :P
Personally I am so sick of all these same redundant articles about the political correct ramifications of their products. You dont hear anybody bitching about Scions parties promoting cars at booze and drug soaked club events? Now there's a real interesting confluence of agendas. People got a hard on for cigarettes and its pretty lame and highly hipocritical to be honest.
I love Camels...haha, and why not? let them advertise as they see fit.
i used to smoke Parliments but they're impossible to find in London so i converted.
If people wound up dying horrific deaths while going about their lives 20 years after driving Scions, then you WOULD hear people bitching. This is about life and death...not being politically correct.
I was told that some cheesy marketing company out of Tampa, FL called BFG is the brainchild behind the gaudy, in your face branding at the Flaming Lips, Band of Horses Camel shows that is described in this article. I am a smoker and I was offended by the obnoxious, tacky branding I experienced at a recent Band of Horses concert that I attended. There is another small agency in Chicago whose name I can't remember (I believe it's Cart Marketing) that runs the Farm stuff. The Farm parties I have attended were much more tactful with the Camel branding and they seemed to focus on local emerging artists more so than the high paying indie artists such as Flaming Lips.
Im in one of the bands name dropped in this fold out ad. Nobody , at any time contacted my band , label or publicist. We were never asked if we wanted to be mentioned in a cigarette ad or if we minded to have our music on The Farm website. We certainly we\ere NOT compensated in anyway.
I personally don't smoke , nor do any of my bandmates. I already lost a parent to lung cancer and having my band associated in any way with Camel INFURIATES me.
Camel doesn't care about indie music and neither does Rolling Stone. Both just want youth money and don't care what ethics they breech to get it.
This message is for #10- I work for one of the major cigarette companies. I'm also a non smoker who smoked 2 packs of cigarettes for 15+ years and one day, when I decided I was tired of smoking I quit without any help from anyone or anything. You pompous, holier than thou people are probably drinkers, but I guess you think that's okay even though it kills innocent people every day on our highways. And while we're at it, let's take a look at the millions of dollars the tobacco industry paid to states for youth programs designed to stop children from smoking. Know where that money went? To balance their state budgets because they're too lazy or too stupid to get it right--and before you run your mouth anymore, don't forget that the money the tobacco industry is paying out is getting ready to be used to pay for children's healthcare if the government has their way--ironic isn't it?
but REALLY - I hate The Strokes.
No need for name calling, Get A Life #21, but it's no shock coming from a tobacco employee who has blood on his/her hands. My mom quit smoking on her own after 15 years too. She started as a teen before it was known what your product really does. 20 years later her neck hurt. She learned she had lung cancer that had spread to her spine and brain as a result of using your product. 9 months later she was dead at the age of 57. I've studied the areas of lung cancer, smoking, tobacco advertising and tobacco in the music industry thoroughly and clearly know a lot more than you...Your industry was FORCED to pay for those youth programs so don't try to make your industry sound generous or caring. Yes, the states F'd up by using the funds wrong. But you people still do everything you can to sneak around the laws to addict new young people who will end up like my mom. As for your alcohol comment, it's drinking and DRIVING that is killing people. The USE OF YOUR PRODUCT AS INTENDED is what kills people! Not mixing it with something else. The tax on smokes to pay for kids healthcare is not ironic, it's smart. Taxes are shown to decrease your sales which means less smokers...and the price will cut down on new smokers. Then the money will be put to good use. Hopefully that money will dry up and a new source of revenue will be found elsewhere for health care. And don't name yourself Get A Life when your career is spent taking lives. Remove the nicotine from your product and let's see how many people keep buying it. Put a warning on each pack that says "More addictive than heroin" and, like in the UK, another that says "This product will kill you". Seriously, pull your head out of your ass.
Rolling Stone.
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.
Two great capitalists that capitalize great together.
Welcome to Corporate America, indie bands! Good luck trying to wipe the stink off...and it no longer smells like Teen Spirit! It's lung cancer and emphysemea! Rock and roll!
who gives a shit about this? if you don't wanna smoke, then don't fucking smoke! I'm not a smoker and I'm sure as hell not bothered by a Tobacco company marketing their product, because i'm smart enough to make my own decisions.
It's so obvious which of these comments were written by the publicist of a tobacco company/lobby...
Give it up--we are on to you!
Over 400,000 Americans die EVERY YEAR from smoking-related illnesses. So a lot of people give a shit DL.
It seems that a lot of people are losing focus of this discussion. Regardless of whether or not marketing cigarettes is ethical, I think we can agree that it is not ethical to take something that people (kids or not) think is cool and use it to sell a product without getting any permission. Not only is it unethical, it's also illegal.
I find the whole thing absurd and just a marketing tool to get more people to smoke which to me is pathetic reguardless if bands or fans smoke it shouldnt be shoved in your face and made as if their helping artist and promoting smoking is cool cause all they are promoting is simply lies,Alternative music was never based on promoting things and if true to the genre most bands would reject such projects and endorsements.
I promote CAMEL Cigarettes for a living. I smoke CAMELS. I remember when this was AMERICA. You don't like it, don't attend the events! You’re not forced to smoke at the shows. Music is for everyone. If some people enjoy listening with a drink in one hand and a smoke in the other, well by all means.
People ask me "How do you sleep at night?" I tell them "I usually start on my back and end up on my side."
So many smokers are all offended by this discussion, and it's funny because it's not about "Smoking Or No Smoking". It's about business ethics and responsibility...but I guess if you're so stupid that you sit around all day and inhale poison, you probably don't understand much anyway.
people are being way too uptight about this. there are much more dangerous things in life than smoking.
"people are being way too uptight about this. there are much more dangerous things in life than smoking."
Huh. Like what? For kids? Come on.
Seriously, the saturation bombing of these comments by representatives of the tobacco industry is abominable. Their attempts to anonymously pose as "Joe Sixpack" (or is that "Joe Hardpack"?) and drop everyman wisdom that JUST HAPPENS to be pro-smoking is not just pathetic, it's utterly transparent. At least #30 has the guts to come out and reveal himself. The rest of you paid-by-the-hour blog stooges can go fuck yourself.
Hey Field Agent,
I represent one of the band's namechecked in this advetorial mess that's going to cost your company millions of dollars in fines.
You say "I remember when this was AMERICA. You don't like it, don't attend the events! You’re not forced to smoke at the shows."
The bands in the RS advertisment were not asked to be apart of this promotion, rather they were forced to be apart of it against their knowledge. Wave your flag bonehead, your argument for choice contradicts entirely your own company's marketing moves. And if we determine that this is in fact an advertisement and not editorial, you're going to see lawsuits on top of the fines. I see Field Agent downsizing in the near future.
CAN I BUM A SMOKE FROM YOU... I SPENT ALL MY MONEY ON $8 BEERS AT THIS CONCERT!!!!
***URSA MAJOR***
How funny.
Where were the attorney general's defending universities' rights?
oh yea. they might not pay $40-500 million.
So, a defunct fake news site made fun of a situation like this about four years ago -- check it out:
http://moonnews.tripod.com/front.html
interesting. I'm in a very small, upcoming indie band and have been asked to play a show sponsored by kaart marketing for a sum of money that is greater than what we would normally be offered. the show is free, open bar, and supposedly no cigarettes will be advertised at the show... i'm honestly on the fence. none of us smoke and we don't and wouldn't support camel, but we could certainly use the money. I also seriously doubt that any of our fans would become smokers by attending the show. is it harmless? or sinister?
companies like rjr target 18-30 year olds the same way non tobacco companies do. coca cola or firestone or any other large company must find its market somewhere. if we say that cartoon images market the youth, what about beer commercials that glorify alcohol? personally i dont agree with either. but business is business. they are in the business of finding impressionable people to smoke their brand. targeting that generation makes more sense than targeting 40 or 50 year olds( they wont live long enough to buy more product). rjr should stop advertising altogether. if people want to smoke they will evetually have to decide where it counts. at the gas station. where they buy them. gas stations are not age restricted and cigarettes are right next to every other item that kids can see. anti-smoking companies should focus on the kids who havent made it to the club yet. even if RJReynolds evil plot to impress underage kids to buy camels works, isnt it the law that stops them unless they are old enough?
what kind of people who put the tobacco restrictions in place didnt go for the alcohol. im sorry i dont want my kid asking what smirnoff or jack daniels is when hes 6. society is too one sided. as far as camel using indie rock as a platform to recruit more smokers, and bands not knowing whats going on...what kind of idiot musician hands over music, biographies, etc. without knowing the details. i refuse to believe these bands are acting so suprised. its the same way hiphop complains about how corporate it has become. jsut because its cigarettes, people blow up about it.
marketing companies are excatly that. marketing companies. rjr cant do tv, radio, etc. what do we expect them to do? its a desperate move and not very classy. but this thing has been going on longer than the "farm" indie label.
no one can stop RJR from selling smokes. they have a right to. they have bilions of dollars. theyre trying to find ways to spend it. if i was the indie bands id cash in while i can.
This isn't about smoking, it is about the freedom to choose. Both by the artist and the consumer. We live in the market place, and for some of us we have made the decision to live our lives in such a way that we try to keep part of our lives separate from the "straight" corporate world. It is safe to say though, no one like this crap rammed down their throat.
Big tobacco flashing cash at the f'lips or dino j. is one thing because they sold out years ago. Indie-rock, in what world do you live in? Artists need to make money I get it, but there needs to be a better way.
This tobacco thing isn't new, I used to know this dirtball who had the right ripped jeans and the right tattoos and the right "cred", he got a job with a promotions company where he spent every night getting loaded, hading out smokes and getting a living wage.
Why is it that if you agree that people should be allowed to do what they want and to make their own decisions, you are automatically penned as a tobacco lobbyist? Maybe some people are just pro-freedom of choice. This is the reason this country sucks these days. Everyone feels they have a right to their OWN opinion but everyone else has a right to shut the eff up. There is no way to make everyone happy. It will not happen. If you dont like something you avoid it, turn it off, walk the other way or do not join in. Soo simple. For some reason, this reminds me of the religious people vs. the athiests. Who's rights are more important? You can't pick and choose who gets constitutional rights and who doesn't. Are there not more important immediate things going on in our country right now?
As a band, when you do one of these shows, you sign a contract stating that Camel can use your band name, likeness, etc. carte blanche for promoting their own agenda. I'm not sure if the bands in the Rolling Stone advertorial signed anything, though. If they didn't, then shame on Camel.
The Flaming Lips may have gotten paid well, but I can tell you that the smaller club shows don't really pay bands too well.
For the record, I'm all for people making their own choices and for companies to be able to advertise and promote their product or service. But this seems like Camel is just trying to attach themselves to the success and cool factor of indie bands, and perhaps doing it covertly. Un. Cool.
i love this website
What about things such as the Jagermeister tour? They are promoting the same type of thing. I still smoke(though I am trying to quit) but fought an intense battle for 10 years of Alcoholism. Do you feel it's right for companies such as Jagermeister to be able to promote their product obviously to the younger generation with the Nu metal bands etc?
Jagermeister shows, for the most part are all ages, and promotions run rampid for the alcoholic drink.
I do tend to agree with most of you about Camel and their lack of judgement and obvious alterior motives with their Farm, and tours, but I do find it ironic that alcohol companies do not have to subscribe to nearly the standard of which Tobbaco companies are expected to keep.
For me Alcohol was way worse than my smoking. Sure both can kill me eventually, and smoking is bound to cause me health problems in the future, but with drinking I frequently and unknowingly(blackouts) put other peoples lives at danger, and missed work, and caused pain and strife within my friends and family.
Both are very bad, I just think that it's a double standard.
(been clean for 2 1/2 years by the way :)
I smoke Camels by the way
I just made $200.00 for a night of cigarette promo.
I don't smoke and don't feel bad about what I did.
If people are no smarter than to start smoking in the year 2008, with all we know, who the hell am I not to take 200 dollars for a few hours of work?
No one can shame me, I can't even get a real job because of a bad back so I'm just trying to make a living, if these people want to smoke the cancer stick, more power to them.
I'm too poor to smoke, if I was stupid enough to.
maybe people are to be pitied that started years ago when no one knew better, but now EVERYONE knows,so it's your choice to START.
If it's addictive, who knows, but they know not to START in the FIRST place.